Curse

jackie · Jul 18, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Best situation would be to link these new chapters to old ones so that we have one big world that gets bigger by every chapter. Not 10 continents with no interaction between each other. That way older chapters won't be so dead in future.

That is the flaw of Stand Alone concept & zero proper connection with each chapters.

Crimson Ashwood · Jul 18, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure a multi-million dollar company with a long history in MMORPG's has a better idea of how to execute Guild Wars from a business and gameplay viewpoint than your average bitchy, whiney yet frequent player of the game.

Have a little faith. Being jaded and negative about the game isn't doing anyone any good, and you can't sit there an pretend you have any where near the clear view of the game as A-Net regarding how things should go, nor full understanding of the reasons behind their decisions.

If you did, you'd be doing what they do, and visa versa...

If y'all hate factions so much (a flawless addition to an existing winning title), why do you bother sitting behind a forum screen bad mouthing it for hours on end.

Have faith in the powers behind Guild Wars because it's a given they know more about the business than you do...

Domino · Jul 18, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ashwood

If y'all hate factions so much (a flawless addition to an existing winning title), why do you bother sitting behind a forum screen bad mouthing it for hours on end.

You're saying Factions is flawless? Are you serious? .... wow

Crimson Ashwood · Jul 18, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

For what it is, a stand alone/add-on for the original, big enough to be fun, small enough to keep people hanging around in chapter one, with a host of new items and skills as well as 2 new playable professions... yes, it's flawless in that regard...

I mean, what exactly did you expect? It's more Guild Wars, if you're looking for a different game, perhaps you should just continue your search...

tear · Jul 18, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ashwood

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure a multi-million dollar company with a long history in MMORPG's has a better idea of how to execute Guild Wars from a business and gameplay viewpoint than your average bitchy, whiney yet frequently player of the game.

Have a little faith. Being jaded and negative about the game isn't doing anyone any good, and you can't sit there an pretent you have any where near the clear view of the A-Net team of how things should go, and the reasons behind it.

If you did, you'd be doing what they do, and visa versa...

If y'all hate factions so much (a flawless addition to an existing winning title), why do you bother sitting behind a forum screen bad mouthing it for hours on end.

Have faith in the powers behind Guild Wars because it's a given they know more about the business than you do...

Actually, as players we've become aware of problems that have begun to arise with the introduction of Chapter II and that appear to run the risk of increasing in severity with the release of additional chapters.

Guild Wars is a new style of game that ANET is sort of monitoring as it unfolds for what does and does not work, and believe it or not, they seem to be working and exploring as they go along and likely don't quite know everything yet, as no one can clearly predict the future or the results of each of their decisions.

As the masses of players that know the game from the position of customers, our concerns are the developers' concerns and just as with actual players being the best means of testing out a game, our perspective on their work is a valuable tool to them.

If we'd always "had faith" and didn't speak up about any of our discrepencies, the changes we've ever desired would never have been realized and often met as they have been many times in the past up through the present. We don't hate the game just because we have issues with and worries for certain aspects of it, and feedback is important to any business. Through criticism, we get more of what we want in the game and they get happy(er) customers and their money. We're trying to ensure that each chapter of Guild Wars is successful, in which case, everyone wins.

Shyft the Pyro · Jul 18, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ashwood

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure a multi-million dollar company with a long history in MMORPG's has a better idea of how to execute Guild Wars from a business and gameplay viewpoint than your average bitchy, whiney yet frequently player of the game.

Ah, but that's where you hit a snag! A successful business venture is quite different from an engaging computer game. Just look at how many "nice" games have been absolutely loved by gamers but were discontinued as commercial failures, and how many spectacularly produced (or hyped if you prefer) games failed to live up to player expectations and died on the player side. Considering the history of PC games, it seems that finding that perfect balance between a "good game" and a "profitable franchise" is nearly impossible.

ANet, however, tried to make a "good game" with a new business model. What we see now, and what concerns a lot of people, is that instead of expanding the "player friendly" game ANet has made some "profit-driven" decisions - like shortening the release schedule and restricting expanded storage access - which could end up tipping it into the "commercial success" territory at the expense of "gameplay experience."

I'm sorry, but I can't blindly trust any gaming company because blind trust usually results in abuse. While ANet may be able to measure how commercially viable the new model is through the number of copies sold, only player feedback can determine the customer satisfaction, the "good game" side of the equation. A "multi-million dollar company" may have an idea of how to develop Guild Wars, but plenty of those same companies have died when their ideas failed to coincide with reality.

markus_thom · Jul 18, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

It is a very valid concern how the population will thin out across various chapters once we start reaching 3-4 etc.

Prophecies high level maps like Hell's Precipice will have even less players and thats simply NOT fun.

I think one solution is to release future chapters bundled with older chapters.

Imagine if Chapter 4 built up on Tyria, and came bundled with Chapter 1. It would bring players to chapter 1 and give them new content in that area.

Just an idea.

Its a good idea and hopefully anet are considering it.

Greedy Gus · Jul 18, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus_thom

Will people forget about older chapters and just move on

Pretty much. This isn't an MMO, it's a competitive online roleplaying game, and you really have no reason to play through the old chapters over and over. The PvE isn't massively multiplayer and it doesn't need to be packed full of people. The campaigns are made to be fun/interesting one or two times through, and the only reason they're still crowded now is that people play this game wanting it to be a free WoW MMO alternative.

With the business model A-net has created, they have no reason to make people feel warm and fuzzy about the PvE of old chapters. The emphasis is on buying and playing the next chapter, and enjoying it enough to buy the next chapter after that. Personally I like the model.

Nexium · Jul 18, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

i hope they make Chapter 3 more like Prophecis and skip the whole Faction thing which was pretty bad in the first place having diffrent faction's too choose betwen it was more hmmm political crap in faction an ''less'' of an adventure like it was in prophecis i don't want too be some delivery boy runing around giving messages sorting out problemms from each faction i want it too be like prophecis where yu get's side quest's as you follow the mainstory
and i really hope they skip having big cities it's like runing around in a maze
and i hope they allso make upp some new farming place and nott some Elite mission stuff maybe something new like fow where you can do quests if you wan't.. oh and that they fix new skills and not just slap on a new name tag and picture to it.

Rent · Jul 18, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexium

i hope they make Chapter 3 more like Prophecis and skip the whole Faction thing which was pretty bad in the first place having diffrent faction's too choose betwen it was more hmmm political crap in faction an ''less'' of an adventure like it was in prophecis i don't want too be some delivery boy runing around giving messages sorting out problemms from each faction i want it too be like prophecis where yu get's side quest's as you follow the mainstory
and i really hope they skip having big cities it's like runing around in a maze
and i hope they allso make upp some new farming place and nott some Elite mission stuff maybe something new like fow where you can do quests if you wan't.. oh and that they fix new skills and not just slap on a new name tag and picture to it.

First off, congratulations for the most generic rant ever.

Second, I am tired of seeing people say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexium

ome delivery boy runing around giving messages sorting out problemms from each faction

Name me three quests from Prophecies that WEREN'T "go get this for me" "take this here" "kill that guy/those guys".

LuckyGiant · Jul 18, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Ah, but that's where you hit a snag! A successful business venture is quite different from an engaging computer game. Just look at how many "nice" games have been absolutely loved by gamers but were discontinued as commercial failures, and how many spectacularly produced (or hyped if you prefer) games failed to live up to player expectations and died on the player side. Considering the history of PC games, it seems that finding that perfect balance between a "good game" and a "profitable franchise" is nearly impossible.

ANet, however, tried to make a "good game" with a new business model. What we see now, and what concerns a lot of people, is that instead of expanding the "player friendly" game ANet has made some "profit-driven" decisions - like shortening the release schedule and restricting expanded storage access - which could end up tipping it into the "commercial success" territory at the expense of "gameplay experience."

I'm sorry, but I can't blindly trust any gaming company because blind trust usually results in abuse. While ANet may be able to measure how commercially viable the new model is through the number of copies sold, only player feedback can determine the customer satisfaction, the "good game" side of the equation. A "multi-million dollar company" may have an idea of how to develop Guild Wars, but plenty of those same companies have died when their ideas failed to coincide with reality.

For me you summed it all up really nicely there. I think Anet has got most things planned out with approx dates. They had every intention of releasing added storage during Chp2 to make it Chp2 exclusive (obvious way for maximising profits), but they keep giving the classic "Anet soon" answer to everything (its in their best interest not to answer one way or another) I think they are taking this route

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

which could end up tipping it into the "commercial success" territory at the expense of "gameplay experience."

Xenrath · Jul 18, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

If only someone was reading this. When I mean someone, I mean someone who is part of the Guild Wars staff that can change things. Why? Because this is like a gold mine of information. The players are actually yelling out to them everything that's wrong and what needs to be done, but it's being completely ignored. Sadly so.

Some of your suggestions will be looked in to, and possibly added.

Oh yes, only for the next chapter, and there's going to be a catch don'tchaknow! Oh and it might get changed after that too. Please preorder. Stop whining. Deal with it. <end sarcasm> <sigh>

felinette · Jul 18, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Yes, in the end its about the player and their choice of playing styles. However, i feel that GW is the one of the best games that fosters a playing style with this duality of PvE and PvP and they should continue that mindset instead of splitting the game in half.

They can, but they'll lose players who strongly prefer one type of play over the other. Nothing wrong with that, as long as they're sure the game will survive if that happens.

Quote:

Yes its quite sad that people who enjoy all aspects of the game are the minority vs the extreme pvp or pve inclined who are close minded completely to one side of the side or the other.

It's not a matter of being close-minded. It's a matter of preferring one type of play over the other. Different people prefer different things. You can't force people to like something that just doesn't appeal to them.

Quote:

I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure a multi-million dollar company with a long history in MMORPG's has a better idea of how to execute Guild Wars from a business and gameplay viewpoint than your average bitchy, whiney yet frequent player of the game.

Yeah, because no game company with a long history has ever gone under because of bad decisions that have alienated its fan base.</sarcasm> And I haven't seen much bitchy and whiney happening in this thread--I've seen a lot of reasonable discussion.

Crimson Ashwood · Jul 18, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Yeah, because no game company with a long history has ever gone under because of bad decisions that have alienated its fan base.</sarcasm>

I can't think of one single company that has done that, no. They've gone down by developing games nobody wants to play, and GuildWars is SO FAR away from that mark, your point holds no water what-so-ever...

(FYI)

Xenrath · Jul 18, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

*cough*sierra*cough*ion storm*cough* oh my I need to get a drink for that cough. The history of gaming is awash with games developers thinking they know best. Well, to be fair, probably marketing execs these days. They might still be around in one form or another but they've surely helped kill game series/titles. Then you have the guys who made awesome games like Looking Glass, and they still went under...

On a side note, if it's so amazingly flawless and great, why is it most places in Factions seem to be empty on euro servers at least (and I've been trying a lot of hours day and night over the past few weeks due to holiday/time off work). During the height of Prophecies' popularity this was not a noticeable problem. Maybe PvP has increased in popularity I dunno, not my forte, but the rest of it doesn't appear so (from personal experience)

felinette · Jul 18, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ashwood

I can't think of one single company that has done that, no.

Then you either haven't been gaming very long or haven't been paying attention. Someone has already mentioned Sierra. The one that springs to my mind immediately is 3DO. Had two lucrative franchises that they managed to destroy. There have been others. Not all sequels live up to their predecessors.

Yeah, Looking Glass was really unfortunate....

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Yeah, because no game company with a long history has ever gone under because of bad decisions that have alienated its fan base.</sarcasm>

Quote:

They've gone down by developing games nobody wants to play

Nobody wanted to play them because the devs made bad design decisions. The two things aren't unrelated. And I never said GW is a game nobody wants to play. We're talking about the future, not the present.

majoho · Jul 18, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tear

Actually, as players we've become aware of problems that have begun to arise with the introduction of Chapter II and that appear to run the risk of increasing in severity with the release of additional chapters.

Guild Wars is a new style of game that ANET is sort of monitoring as it unfolds for what does and does not work, and believe it or not, they seem to be working and exploring as they go along and likely don't quite know everything yet, as no one can clearly predict the future or the results of each of their decisions.

As the masses of players that know the game from the position of customers, our concerns are the developers' concerns and just as with actual players being the best means of testing out a game, our perspective on their work is a valuable tool to them.

If we'd always "had faith" and didn't speak up about any of our discrepencies, the changes we've ever desired would never have been realized and often met as they have been many times in the past up through the present. We don't hate the game just because we have issues with and worries for certain aspects of it, and feedback is important to any business. Through criticism, we get more of what we want in the game and they get happy(er) customers and their money. We're trying to ensure that each chapter of Guild Wars is successful, in which case, everyone wins.

Why are you presenting the above as facts and thinking you are speaking on behalf of the majority of the community?

SpeedyKQ · Jul 18, 2006, 02:23 PM // 14:23

So as new chapters release, you won't be able to PUG your way through older chapters. You'll have to use hench or play with helpful guildmates. If you're into pugging, you should buy each chapter as it comes out and focus on it. Doesn't seem like the end of the world.

Beat_Go_Stick · Jul 18, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Tano

Its sad to say this but if guild wars doesnt get improven in some way then i suppose everyone should do the following.

START LOOKING FOR OTHER MMORPG'S.

A couple good ones:
World of Warcraft + The Burning Crusade
Lord of the Rings Online
Warhammer Online

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Why would I play an MMO? I came to GW just to avoid that.

Exactly. People who keep telling us to play WoW need to get something through their head: We bought Guild Wars and enjoyed it because it was not one of those massive, neverending, monthly fee MMO's. It has an ending that is achievable within a relatively small time frame. It does not require you to grind for weeks just to obtain the equipment required in order to remain competitive. It is a one shot charge. You pay. You play. You don't pay again unless you want more and, if you decide you don't want more, you can still play with what you've already bought.

Those online games are nothing like what I am looking for in a game at all. I'd honestly rather not play games than play any of those for free (since money isn't honestly an issue for me).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ashwood

If y'all hate factions so much (a flawless addition to an existing winning title), why do you bother sitting behind a forum screen bad mouthing it for hours on end.

I have a lot of time between tasks at work

I don't even really play Guild Wars any more but I still enjoy adding my opinions in hopes that one day I'll feel like playing it again

And yes, Factions is the reason I no longer play so it's pretty safe to say I hated it....

You say they know better than we do but the method most companies use to decide whether or not their decisions and/or features were good ones is through customer feedback. You think these guys took some classes in college and now just automatically know what's best? They made a great game and altered it during alpha/beta testing based on the feedback they recieved.

But I digress....

Personally, I think the problem is too many gaming companies try to milk a game name until it's dry. They should accept the fact (yes, fact) that Guild Wars can only really go so far and move on to another game. Take the ideas they have and, by all means, implement them, but do it in something completely new and exciting so that we can say "A.Net releases amazingly fun games!" instead of "A.Net released areally great game and then expanded it into the depths of futility..."

I would really love to see what A.Net would come up with next while they are still completely inspired from their success. I would most likely buy their next RPG based on their success with Guild Wars so long as they don't burn out every idea they have on a game that really should not be expanded infinitely.

For example, I loved Halflife and bought the sequel because the original was great. After playing the sequel, I found myself wishing they had just come up with a whole new story line, new characters, and named it something completely unrelated to the original. A few thousand more dollars on script, plot, and story arc combined with some more character interaction and originality would have made that game the most epic FPS ever. As it was, I won't even be buying any of their expansions for it.

You milk a cow for what it's worth and then sell it off before it dries up. Gaming companies have a tendency to keep on milking until there's nothing left. It's really a shame.

Quozz · Jul 18, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I completely oppose seperating pvp and pve. I think what needs to happen is allow players an easier way to jump into pvp and unlock things much more easily to be competitive.

I asked this question in another forum once and I can't remember if I ever received any kind of response so I will ask it again. Why do PVP players so desperately want me(or in general PVE players) to play PVP? There is nothing Anet or anyone else can do that will entice me to play a format that I do not find fun and entertaining. If you further blur the line between the two then PVE players will go elsewhere for there gaming fun. Now if Anet's great game design vision is to have this type of forced PVP play at the expense of inovation on the PVE side then so be it. What they need to understand is that its the PVE player who upholds their very lively hood and if we go elsewhere GW will become another bright star that suffered a tragic burnout.

On another side note, I noticed they published some info on two new classes for chapter 3. Still early as I am sure more info on the game will be forthcoming but I find it disappointing that I won't be able to see the new classes on their beta weekend unless I PVP. Also 2 new classes is not the kind of content I am looking for in chapter 3. I already have 6 characters I am fond of playing and I want those classes to be expanded on (haven't even bothered making an assassin or a ritualist). Please Anet, can we get a little love for our existing characters so they don't end up going through another chapter with naught to gain but a few new skills.